New exhaust - Less power? :S

Discussion in 'General Tuning' started by [-Jebus-], Jan 8, 2009.

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  1. [-Jebus-]

    [-Jebus-] Member

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    is that 3 people i know personally with a clue, or 3 people who have a clue, like anyone, then u saying that shops are pathetic and just want money lol...

    i love that last bit - Experience is worth much more than money... Minor the philosipher :p (or however it's spelt)
     
    [-Jebus-], Jan 20, 2009
    #61
  2. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    et2 monster
    i mean ask about people who have used most pipes.. or atleast know people who have and arnt just trrying to defend what they chose is the best... my pipes shit, i know, im undecided on a barrel hence i dont care. but i know what pipe i would like to be running for any barrel from experience alone. dont have any reason to sudgest somthing that is shit as im not makin money.. blah blah, same with any other clued up members on the site (dont be pissed i didnt name you, you know who you are)
     
    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn, Jan 20, 2009
    #62
  3. [-Jebus-]

    [-Jebus-] Member

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    337
    ahh right k then, i'll come here in future and see if someone can point me in the right way.. rather than just go buy it... and if the exhaust is as bad as people have said (which i imagine so) then i'll be in need of a new one soon'ish? lol
     
    [-Jebus-], Jan 20, 2009
    #63
  4. Blue dwarf

    Blue dwarf New Member

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    342
    It happens all the time, mates say an XXX pipe worked well on their scoot so you go and buy the same only to find it runs worse than the std exhaust, or think spending more money on a pipe must be a good idea because it`s more expensive it`s gonna work better...wrong!

    Match the kit to the pipe or visa versa as a low-end kit will cost about the same as a low-end pipe eg.Polini sport and leo ZX.

    Problems come when you`ve bought a mid-high pipe and realise that your kit/crank etc just won`t spin at the revs the pipe is tuned to then it is cheaper to bite the bullet, sell the pipe and buy one more suited and that works.

    There is a very good guide to pipe and kit matching on this forum btw.
     
    Blue dwarf, Jan 20, 2009
    #64
  5. [-Jebus-]

    [-Jebus-] Member

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    337
    yeah mate i've noticed the guide after i bought the thing - although i think it's just a de-restricted 50? although the guy that i bought it off just said that "it's had alot done to it.." and i wus like "oh right kool.." first got it, it done 30 max... 50 down a hill (going on clock speeds) and i wus like "yeah wtf?" so took it into the local yamaha shop (robbin bastards) spent like 50 quid on it, for them to take the baffles out the exhaust, clean the carbon out of it (didn't say where) guessing maybe the port? after that it went well - but kept getting worse and worse - as the carbon built back up..? lol so i bought a new pipe hoping it'd make it better, didn't at first, changed the rollers from 5g to 3g and it made a massive difference...

    mates have never really been helpfull when it comes to my ped - one has an rs50 (thinks its some kind of super bike like an m1.. fuckin tit lol) and the other has a shitty Daelim which doesn't go faster than 35 lol...

    so yeah i went purely on my own estimates as of what would be good.. :D
    (sorry bout the massive story btw :p) lol
     
    [-Jebus-], Jan 20, 2009
    #65
  6. skateboardkid

    skateboardkid New Member

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    13
    If you try 4 g rollers you might get some 0-10mph back. IMO
    I have been tuning my roller weights for weeks and when I was too light it over revs and does not pull hard until you get moving with a little more weight you can get some bite off the line. IMO
     
    skateboardkid, Apr 29, 2009
    #66
  7. [-Jebus-]

    [-Jebus-] Member

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    337
    yeah, i could do with some 4g rollers tbh, 5g seems about right with the upgraded contra spring but rev a lil low imo, and 3's rev WAY too high... although if i put 3 5's and 3 3's it seems to be a bit inbetween... so it's within the 4-5 region of what i need i think..

    but my variators the doppler one with the red rollers that are rather large.. a new set of rollers is fekin 8 quid!.. oh well, back to the bank i go i suppose?
     
    [-Jebus-], Apr 29, 2009
    #67
  8. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    et2 monster
    highest rpm doesent mean fastest scoot....

    rollers are about a balance between revs and gearchage/actuation on the variator. your peak power will always be around 500rpm BELOW the max revs of the kit/pipe combination (somtimes as much as 3000rpm below) you want to increase the roller weight untill you staert to loose revs, it will start to pull more and more to a point. fact is its trial and error but revs DONT equal power.

    a pipe works on harmonic princaple... ie your engine will resonate pulses (at a certian speed) the pipe will take this pulse then reflect it back at a point in wich a, the pressure in the pipe is at its drop off point (starts to loose momentum) and b, when the exhaust poirt is about toi close

    the wrong pipe will draw too much fuyel into it, deliver the pulse ether too early (pulse reflects back off the back wall of the cylinder back down the pipe) or too late (even worse as the piston is now pushed to the back of the cylinder causing LOTS of streesses on both the piston and the cylinder)

    pick right. go wiht what people can prove, not what they think
     
    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn, Apr 29, 2009
    #68
  9. [-Jebus-]

    [-Jebus-] Member

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    337
    yeah, i've gathered that it's all trial and error with rollers, hence i want to try somewhere around 4.5 region =\...

    if you read this again some time soon minor (or anyone who has an idea), the whole thing of clutch springs and contra springs, tighter they are quicker you take off and all that kinda thing.. upgraded the clutch springs to the blue malossi ones (think it was blue).. and it takes off fine at first, get half way down the main road next to my house, stop in traffic come to take off again, and it feels as though the clutch isn't engaging and just slipping around on the bell? could this be a worn bell/clutch shoes (if that's what they are called) or could it just be general overheating...

    then a little bit futher down the road, or if it's warmed up more, it takes longer to get from 0-10 than it does from 10-40... it's slower than walking pace... could this just be general overheating? if so how do i get around it? it's starting to irritate me now... especially if you go down past a MASSIVE que of traffic, then it doesn't wanna set off...
     
    [-Jebus-], Apr 29, 2009
    #69
  10. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    14,276
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    et2 monster
    no too stiff and it will simply slip on the cluthc till it locks (mewaning higher speed's) unfortunatly your probably not going fast enough to do so.. better off setting the rollers wiht a stock clutch setup and ignoring the first say 10mph of bullshit revving. means the clutch is over and done wiht/illiminated from the equasion LONG befor the roller sstart to do there job.


    contra spring gives acceleration? never heard anything so silly. they affect the ammount of prerssure on the rear pulley.. mostly for offt throttle engine speed holding (keeping the revs up a bit as you decelerate) and putting more pressure on heavier rollers slowing there progression up the variator./. again leave it alone till you figure your rollers

    order should be rough jetting (if applicable) then rollers, then clutch springs, then contra/rollers again, then finally jetting (just to be sure)
     
    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn, Apr 29, 2009
    #70
  11. [-Jebus-]

    [-Jebus-] Member

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    337
    hmmm ok then, so the order of setting it up should be jetting > rollers > springs > contra/rolers then jetting again,

    tbh i can't say i've ever seen the carb on this ped, the air box is infront of the transmission cover which i thought was a bit of an odd place to be =\... and i don't know how to change a jet, hence i've stayed away from jetting as i don't wish to break the damn thing.. lol
     
    [-Jebus-], Apr 29, 2009
    #71
  12. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    et2 monster
    not jetting a bike is more liekly to blow it....

    sounds to me like youve done more fucking about and less reading than you should have.

    order is however you wanty to approach it, but this is the way i find works out easiest as inevitably you have to chase your tail with the rollers/jets/needle setting/springs/folter type blah blah

    this is befor the more serious tunning even starts (fgine tunning is ALWAYS missed/unknown to most people.. it emplys "tunning" frequency's to match everything up to the peak point power rpm... just like tunning a trumpet/clarinet/any other wind instrument.. your making the best use of AIR at the end of the day.. THATS tunning. anyhting else is power modification)

    but wiohtout getting too technical get a simple book on 2 stroke tunning. read a bit on jetting and experiment wiht ONE thing at a time untill YOU understand what it does (not in theory. on YOUR bike) wont learn fuck all otherwise, will jsut think you do and chat a load of good sounding nonsence on a forum, like alot of people
     
    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn, Apr 29, 2009
    #72
  13. [-Jebus-]

    [-Jebus-] Member

    Messages:
    337
    okay then cheers, i'll leave it alone from now on, as it's alright as it is, just that little bit of take off which is hard to explain :confused:..

    to the library i suppose haha
     
    [-Jebus-], Apr 29, 2009
    #73
  14. Dec

    Dec Active Member

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    3,183
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    nothing ugm
    strip your bike down to bare frame and build it back up again.
     
    Dec, May 6, 2009
    #74
  15. [-Jebus-]

    [-Jebus-] Member

    Messages:
    337

    haha, that means i have to walk to school etc... i don't do walking.. lol

    plus i don't wanna break anything tbh, maybe when im driving i might :)
     
    [-Jebus-], May 7, 2009
    #75
  16. Dec

    Dec Active Member

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    3,183
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    nothing ugm
    takes an afternoon at the most?

    just get to know your bike.
     
    Dec, May 7, 2009
    #76
  17. [-Jebus-]

    [-Jebus-] Member

    Messages:
    337
    takes an afternoon if you know what you're doing ;)... would take me a bit longer than that lol
     
    [-Jebus-], May 7, 2009
    #77
  18. Vesta

    Vesta New Member

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    2,615
    these pipes are bare shit im running one now :(
     
    Vesta, May 7, 2009
    #78
  19. capri dave

    capri dave Active Member

    Messages:
    5,076
    i thought you was running a pro-replica, not a pro!!

    a lad i know has used a pro, its got a seperate stub, which is what you need really...

    where the pro-replica has a one piece olive fitment, which basically means its nothing special.
     
    capri dave, May 8, 2009
    #79
  20. [-Jebus-]

    [-Jebus-] Member

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    337

    hmmm mine doesn't have a stub? Scooter-Attack ripped me off? =\
     
    [-Jebus-], May 8, 2009
    #80
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