Advice

It was actually empty, I think its just the fluid in there making it look weird, but I didnt feel anything in there, like a rim to any Seals etc, there is the small one in there I think, photos arent that good, but yeah I dont think theres any near the top, I put a cloth in there with my finger to get rid of any fluid incase there was any paint in there from spraying it, but yeah, I dont think theres any Seals apart from the small one.

 

Yes there will be a hole at the bottom of the piston hole, thats where the fluid goes behind the piston and pushes it out. There are also two others, top and bottom of the caliper halves on the mating surfaces. This is where the fluid passes from one half to the other, they should also have a flat rubber washer around them.
I think it would be worth a call or a visit to the aprilia dealer to clarify the position on the caliper seals. The schematic is not clear enough the see, although it does show a "packet" item no:10, that is the seal kit.
I'm bloody sure it should have two seals in it, one fluid seal, about half way down the hole, and one dust seal near the top. Would be a brake seizure waiting to happen otherwise, all the road grime and crap getting in there. You would be changing the piston every 12 months because of corrosion.
See if you can post a good photo of the inside of the piston hole with some light on it later.
As someone, i think it was Ramo, said, would probably take half an hour to sort out if I was closer. But i'm in Brum.

 

Im going to email 2 Websites now which sell Aprilia parts and ask about the Seals...
I got those Washers on the way aswell, would having these Seals in actually help with the Brakes?
if not... im still suck on actually getting my Brake to work.

 

You have to have seals in, the fluid would piss out otherwise, but, and this is the kicker, the top seal, which is the dust seal, can roll over with age and pull the piston back TOO far and stop effective braking and also screws up the bleeding process, which is what i think you have going on.

The copper washers are also a must have.

Check with the dealers first as per those seals, but don't purchase just yet, lets have a look at yours first and go from there.

If you can stick with it til the weekend i might be able to upload a video of the complete master cylinder and caliper strip-down and rebuild, and the bleeding process.
Will need the help of my neighbour though as i don't own a video camera and tripod, so could be a bit difficult with a video phone

 

Going to take it apart again today and have a look...

also, the Bolts holding the Caliper on, it says to use Screw /w Flange,
are these essential? does the 'collar' on the Screw help at all?

 

I HAVE SEALS.... so just waiting for the Copper Washers, at the moment there's Steel Washers in...
I cant see Washers helping though as they were never on there when I had the Bike,

Basically, bought it, no Washers on the Banjo Bolt, there was another Cylinder on the Bars, I replaced that Cylinder with a new Universal one, all was working... replaced the rear Disc, took the Brake Pipe off the Caliper to spray it, put it all back together, and then it wouldnt work, bled it 3 times now, normally, pressure, then normally, the Seals are inside, again no Washers were on there but i've put the Steel ones in now but will put the Copper ones in once they arrive, i'll bleed it again now just to try but probably wont work, but even when the Copper ones are put in and i've bled it and it wont work, what then?

 

Did the garage bleeding it not do anything at all? The disk hitting the caliper thing..it looks alot like something wasnt put on in the same order when that bracket was last taken off or something random like that. Definitely not anything to do with the disk or the wheel. The inside of the caliper looks like it could do with a clean too..

 

Nope, he just told me to go home and take the Caliper apart and check the Pistons, which are fine... took it apart earlier today to check the Seals which are there... I've not long tried the old Master Cylinder, it had a little more pressure but still nothing so i've put the newer one back on (as I couldnt keep the old one on as I couldnt fit the the Switches back on)....

inside of the Caliper is just dry paint, can easily scrape off...

so yeah, really stumped on why it isnt working... again, there was no Washers on the Caliper end on the Banjo Bolt, but should get them soon which i'll put on, but still they weren't on there anyway so cant see it helping, obviously not the Cylinders as I tried 2, theres no leaks that I know of, the Pipe Line isnt jammed etc.. the Pistons close but theres just no pressure in the lever and not enough to push on the pads/disc.

and its basically Exhaust off underneath the Bike and 1 on the Bracket, then Bracket off from 2 bolts on the Bike, theres not really an order to do it in really.

regarding the Pin in the front Caliper, I havent started with that yet as the back Brake working is a little more important but here is another photo of the Pin that keeps getting hit and tapping when the Wheels going round, sometimes its secure/tight, and sometimes its loose.

(also no Copper Washers on the front Banjo Bolt)

 

can't believe the garage told you that, after everything you've tried, i would have said leave it with me.
Right then, before you put the new seals in, try this.
Take the upper seal out, the one nearest the top, then put the caliper back together. Leave the main brake line off, fill the cylinder and let it drip through the line until it flows out the end. Then attach it to the caliper with the washers each side of the banjo bolt. Bleed it as normal, at the same time keep an eye on the pistons to see if they both move freely or one of them drags behind a bit.
The cylinder will need topping up frequently because it is a long way to the rear caliper from the handlebars so dont get frustrated with it. Be patient, if it doesn't work go back to the garage and ask them to sort it out for you.
If it does then you have proved that the top seal was the cause and then you can strip it down again, replace the seals and do it all over again.
Damn i wish i was closer, could've done it for you

 

Well I havent put any Seals in, havent bought any new ones as the ones in already look perfectly fine, im not sure whether theres one right at the bottom? but could easily feel the one nearer the top but again it looked fine, new infact, same with the Pistons, nothing wrong with them at all... the Pistons move out easily when the Pads arent in, they go in and out easily, and when the Pads are in I can pump the lever and the Pistons would come out until the Pads touch the Disc, but after that theres just not enough pressure to go any further... and theres never any leaks or anything around the Pistons, the whole Brake system was working fine when I got the Bike, replaced the Master Cylinder, still working fine, replaced the Disc and at the same time resprayed the Caliper so had to take the Brake Line off it, and since then its not worked, so I cant see how just taking the Pipe Line off would effect the Seals? i'll get the Copper Washers on anyway and re-bleed it all, i've been trying to find the same Master Cylinder as I got on the front but cant seem to find any, or a cheap matching set I can buy... as when I put my older Master Cylinder on, there was more abit more pressure in the lever but still not enough to stop the Disc/Wheel but alot more pressure than the new Universal Cylinder, im going to wait to get the Washers and then take it to another Garage on Friday who seem alot more experienced as they're the ones that fix up the BMW Bikes, so will see what they say and can suggest etc.

 

Oh I noticed on the Bar end on the Banjo Bolts, they have rubber on the Washers also, the ones I got coming dont have that, is that a problem...?

 

also regarding the Caliper on the Bracket, I seen the Screw /w Flange are used, I aint using them, would that make any difference as to why the Calipers coming in too close?

 

no,wont make any difference having rubber on the washers,god knows why they do that, rubber perishes with brake fluid.
As for flanged bolts, it just means that it has a flare at the bottom of the head that looks like a washer. It helps to spread the load of the head of the bolt when tightened.

 

Well im hoping to get the Washers tomorrow, thats all I can think of as to why things aint working, as everything was until that Banjo was taken off, and it looked liek the previous owner had painted something over that whole section and the dry paint has formed a sort of seal, and obviously taking the Banjo off its broken the paint so putting it back on... theres no 'seal' so yeah, will try the Washers and go from there.... people keep saying the Cylinder might be faulty, but again... it was working before, and plus the original Cylinder dont work either so i've ruled the Cylinder out, Pipe seems fine, Pistons are good, Piston Seals look fine, so all I can think of is having the Washers on the Banjo but we'll see.

 

These things are sent to test us Jo.
I've had a similar problem on my zzr1100 but with the clutch.
Had to have the gearbox out as it had wrecked the selector forks, and third and fourth gears. Also had to replace the selector drum, and while i was in there i replaced the full clutch.
Put it all back together and couldn't get a clean gear change. Changed master cylinder, braided hose, new seals kits on both master and slave cylinders, shimmed up the push rod, moved out the lever push rod. Still not entirely happy with it, have got a new slave cylinder arriving hopefully today as that is the only thing that I think it can be. Even though that is APPARENTLY working fine. Still driving me nuts but i will solve it, with patience. Just like you will.

 

Sounds frustrating!
its just really annoying me as everything was perfect, did a simple thing like take the Pipe off the Caliper for abit and all hells broken loose, now nothing will work, but yeah will try the Washers and go from there, I badly want new Cylinders, matching ones, but having trouble finding some decent priced ones, also wanted to get new coloured Brake Piping but the ones I found are made for Lambrettas, cant find any for my Bike, I can get new Piston Seals but they actually look fine, same with the Pistons, but yeah will get the Washers on and go from there anyway, hopefully they come tomorrow.

 

I dont think its the Washers being missing as I just looked at a video on YouTube of a guy doing things to his Bike (same as mine) and he doesnt seem to have any either...

 

As soon as you disturb any part of the brake lines, even just cracking a bolt head open a touch, it's an immediate re-bleed.

If you want coloured hoses then this is the place:

http://www.venhill.co.uk/Hoses_&_Ca...1F_APRILIA_FRONT_BRAKE_1_HOSE_KIT_CHROME.html

This is where i get all my brake hoses and cable stuff from.
I make my own up, braided hoses naturally. All the fittings and fixtures you'll ever need. Not cheap for the coloured ones though.

 

Yeah they were around £25 on eBay where I seen them...
just weird with these Washers aswell, like I said.. the Bike in the Video dont have them on either, and mine didnt have any on, strange, I seriously want to get some matching Master Cylinders aswell but having no luck in finding any a decent size (as I cant get ones with the built on Mirror holder) and as I have a TNT Racing Bar on the Bike theres less space to use so need small ones but suitable, and matching front and back.

 

You don't need ones with built on mirror holes. You can get bar end mirrors. Your bars hollow at the end? even though the grips cover it?