Porting a 70 barrel

Discussion in 'Scooter Tuning' started by Haresign, Dec 25, 2007.

  1. Haresign

    Haresign New Member

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    Just had a 50 barrel ported which made it amazing, now thinkin about doing it to my 70 kit.

    For best performance....

    what mil of what ports and where??

    Come on, give your secrets away :pimp:
     
  2. kyle1b1

    kyle1b1 New Member

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  3. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    ok.. now your getting somwhere.

    firstly dont raise anything by a full mm... start by FLATTENING the top of the exhaust by grinding ether side/corner of the top edge to the level of the middle.. (put the piston in so it just closes the port then draw round the barrel to get a straight line) then get 1/2mm crescent by raising the middle and blending it to the edges.. you want progressive but immediate opening of the port (blowdown) this releases the pressure nice and quickly meaning more rpm..

    now widen the transfer ports to within 3mm of the ring end on the poston.. (marjk on the outside wall then straight edge the inside of the barrel for a marker of where the ring end is) then the other (primary transfer) point the lower edge towards the exhaust.. if you look at a few high spec portmaps close you will see the difference. there is no need to move the hight/placement of the transfers other than to blueprint at this stage as wider ports with equal durations mean a nice power spread without loss of low end power. it wears out quicker due to less ring support.

    once you have this at a level your happy with (power vs life) then you can start raising the transfers by POINT ONE of a mm... thats 0.1mm at a time.. making sure you only grind one pair (primary or secondary) at a time an make sure there equal.. the primarys (neerer the exhaust) can open up to .5mm earlier than the secondarys but the secondarys must run behind or equal hight for it to not waste mix.. also like i said the oposing port of the same type MUST be equal or the piston will have an uneven load and bend the conrod due to one sided detonation...


    reading it's easy.. understandings a bit harder but its actually doing what ive said properly thats the hard bit.

    not getting messurements out of any of us i dont think.. as for my timings LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
     
  4. kyle1b1

    kyle1b1 New Member

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    minor by this do you mean by taking the kind of curve out out of the top corner something like this ?

    [​IMG]

    and then take a little bit of the top
    [​IMG]

    to try recreate that slighly curving edge ?
     
  5. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    yep... widen the top edge too if you can so the exhaust port gets wider bottom to top. look at the port maps above and find one thats similer layout (same ammount of ports in the same ish places) and grind it to that. you can "blueprint" evo ports on to mhr reps if you like...
     
  6. kyle1b1

    kyle1b1 New Member

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    if i had the ability to :w00t:
     
  7. J-Nitro

    J-Nitro Active Member

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    ive been reading a piorting book and it explains that once the ports have been modified, you must chamfer them to a certain degree to stop ring catching, just ever so slightly

    It was explaing aswell that bigger exhausts ports result in a power band narrower than normal, making there most power at higher rpms, and if you take more of the transfer port its supposed to result in more stable power and longer but makes most of its power at lower rpms (like M/cross bikes)

    is that right minor?
     
  8. nrgandy

    nrgandy New Member

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    2,180
    right iv done some of what minor said to do to a old broken 70 malossi sport kit it looks good so when i get a new flexy shaft for my dremel ill do it all to another spare brand new malossi sport kit and mount that on a engine ive matched and flowed so when i get round to putting it together ill tell you how it perform's. oh and minor for that kind of work which exhaust would be better a hebo performer or a yasuni c16 city or would i need to do more work for it to runn well.
    thanks andy.
     
  9. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    c16 all the way... work well with a ported iron.

    basicly the chamfering is a bit two sided.. i do it for barrels i want to last a long time but for the top revving port you cant really chamfer the edges as it pisses the exact messurements up.. that or you make the chamfer edge where the port should be so you loose area of the port. for life of any barrel they should be chamferd tho (most barrels are piss poor port wise... always need work be it a £12 minimoto barrel or a full spec mhr team)

    just remember to keep the botom edge of the ports perfect to the piston AFTER youve set the squish (piston to head clearance) as if you machine down the top of the barrel or use thicker/thinner gasgets to attain the correct squish after porting the tops and bottoms of the ports wont be where they should be.

    so flow the case, widn the feeds, match the barrel, build it to set tollerences (squish at correct torque using a metal gasget) THEN strip the top end an butcher the ports.

    you want to use a stock gasget and machine the top down so a stock gasget can be used rather than a 0.13mm metal one as there expensive and dont work too well.. where as set it up with one you have lying about.. messure the squish then work out how much more you need in there with the metal.. minus this from the orig gasget and you got spot on squish with a stock gasget.. every time. start big with paper gasgets tho as they shrink up to 1/5th of there thickness wich is why you need to retorque the head after 500 or so miles.
     
  10. J-Nitro

    J-Nitro Active Member

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    ah right, it all makes sense now, nice one minor! ;) , I was reading a book I found on port modifying on how to measure the squish, apparently the guy that wrote the book uses thin solder bent in a "L - shape" and puts it in the spark plug hole, turns to engine over and measures the squished solder with a micrometer / caliper

    is there a safe benchmark on squish clearance or do they vary according to the manufacturers specifications?
     
  11. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    benchmark is 1mm... it will run and wont be over compressing by a long shot. most manufactors state smaller than this altho some use upto a 1.8 clearance for piston material type and head material (usually older engines)
     
  12. wobbly_trials

    wobbly_trials Active Member

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    as a general rule on a 50/70 motor don't go below 0.8mm 1mm is safe
     
  13. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    also that is how most people messure the squish.. some people use up to 4 peices of solder tho.. 2 usually reads close enuff to one to not bother.

    this is crutial for performance tho as you need this as close to specification as possible. depends alot on fuel type and any work done to the barrel obviously but kits will have the figure in the book somwhere.
     
  14. J-Nitro

    J-Nitro Active Member

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    1,307
    thanks! this info is like gold dust to me, very appreciated :cool:
     
  15. waxhead

    waxhead Member

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    594
    I run squish smaller on small bore engines
    I would go down to about 30 thou
    if you reduce the area by 25 % then you have just added the 25%of fuel into the mixture that about to be burned
    That may equate to 5% of the total fuel mix and yes you will feel it
    the only issue is when you get to close and msv gets to high then you have issues
     
  16. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    fir higher compression ratios you need a higher octain not more fuel.. throwing a richer mix at somthing will only cure a problem youve created. doubt a bike running rich with a lower squish would amke more power.. would deffinatly deliver it differently tho but with these head profiles i think pre detonation would be the main concern
     
  17. wobbly_trials

    wobbly_trials Active Member

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    run 20% methanol in there and see what happens. :nerd:
     
  18. alexsr70

    alexsr70 New Member

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    erm.......


    BANG!!!!
     
  19. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    nah, higher octain added to road fuel is a slight increase and better running at the right comp ratio...

    this years bikes will be run on race formulation fuel rather than road fuel at the pod so should be some interesting results
     
  20. wobbly_trials

    wobbly_trials Active Member

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    if you live local to an airfield try to get hold of avgas.
     

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