Piaggio Zip Air cooled 50cc (Are cranks balanced when bought)??

Discussion in 'Scooter Tuning' started by Kyle Davies, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Kyle Davies

    Kyle Davies New Member

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    Piaggio Zip 01 Plate
    I am buying a new full circle crank so that my bike can handle a Stage 6 Sport Pro mk2 and i don't know how to balance cranks so was wondering if there are bought balanced and if not I will have to get a mechanic to do it???
     
  2. scubabiker

    scubabiker NITROJUNKIE

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    7,321
    Ive never had to balance one, but im kind of wondering how balanced they are now...
     
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  3. Stevep

    Stevep Well-Known Member

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    5,895
    You need 2 engineers vee blocks, an engineers clock that measures to 0.0001" (one ten thousandth of a mm), two engineers roller clamps (to hold the crank in the blocks), a flat steel plate and a rawhide mallet.
    set the crank in the vee blocks, clock the run out on each of the crank webs, smack the one thats out of balance with the other, get them to within 0.0005" of each other, the crank is balanced.
    But, so many are slightly out of balance anyway, some more than others, but you'll never notice on a scooter.
    It would have to be massively out for you to notice any difference.

     
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  4. Kyle Davies

    Kyle Davies New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Rides:
    Piaggio Zip 01 Plate
    My thoughts extacly, my bike is a 51 plate so I really need one for a 70 :D
     
  5. Kyle Davies

    Kyle Davies New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Rides:
    Piaggio Zip 01 Plate
    Cheers mate, will get a motorbike tuners shop to do it then :D
     
  6. Stevep

    Stevep Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,895
    Todays cranks are pretty well balanced straight out the box, you will get the odd one that isn't, but it's always worth having a proper engineers place check it, wouldn't take long. And if it's ok then it's just a nominal charge.
     
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  7. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    14,276
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    et2 monster
    dont worry about it. this isnt balancing anyway, its truing.... balancing involves removing and placing weight/material to the crank, truing means making it straight/turn concentricly :)
    never ever ever had to do this to a new crank, and if an old crank came out of true it was time for a new conrod ether way...
     
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  8. Kyle Davies

    Kyle Davies New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Rides:
    Piaggio Zip 01 Plate
    What would you say the charge would be to check/get it balanced and have it fitted properly?
     
  9. Kyle Davies

    Kyle Davies New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Rides:
    Piaggio Zip 01 Plate
    So it should be ready to fit out of the box with the new seals and bearing obviously?

    And would you say it is pretty straight forward to fitting it myself?
     
  10. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

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    et2 monster
    if you have to ask, just dont do it.. it IS fairly basic, but its not simple. the bearings are friction fit so the bearings are fitted to a heated case then the crank fitted to a heated bearing. really, you wanna see someone do one first hand, or practice a few times on a junker, as it can literally jam solid to the point you need bash it apart with a hammer. thus the need for re truing. pull thee ngine out, strip it down to a crank in a case then take it to a reputable motocross shop for a rebuild. shouldnt be more than 30 to 60 quid depending on the cheek factor of the guy doing the work. nocks alot of the expense off a crank fitting and you have almost done it all yourself.
     
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  11. Kyle Davies

    Kyle Davies New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Rides:
    Piaggio Zip 01 Plate
    Thanks minor, if it is not balanced out of the box for any reason will i cause any damage to the bike and how many miles will it needed running in for and how long will the new 70 kit need to be run in for as well thanks?
     
  12. MiNoR cOnFuSiOn

    MiNoR cOnFuSiOn Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,276
    Rides:
    et2 monster
    it will be balanced out of the box dw.... it literally wont go in the engine and spin if its not balanced, its a tight ass fit requiring heat and skill when there dead centre straight, ive only ever seen any kind of runout on the variator side, but then its the entire shaft thats bent, so the crank was scrap anyway. honestly your worrying about how fragile a seriously strong/well pressed together part is. it takes over 50 ton to put a crank together :) you wont bend one dropping it (dont drop it) ive thrown them and not really bent them, just conrod (temper temper)

    crank run in? no such thing, if its fitted right, has the correct endfloat and spins nice and free befor installing the seals, its as good as run in. theres nothing that needs to break in. the cylinder is diff.. if its an ali kit, measure and ajust ring end gap (should know what this is if your fitting a crank and kit) and then just hot cycle the engine a few times.. then a light ride, then a short hard ride, an its prettymuch run in, just dont pin it for 3 mile at a time for a few days or so. if its an iron kit, set ring end again, but set it a little bit wider than usually would, these swell more and kits these days are only going down in quality. i have regular hot siezes with new pistons first running in, that then run for thousands of miles.. just a bit tight on the ring end is all. so ye, ring end, plenty oil when building, good few hot cycles (as in, let the bike idle till uits warm, then cool compleatly) then a gental SHORT ride, like, round the block a few times at really low throttle, let it cool, take it for a clear out (so round the block a few times but have a few 3 second full throttle blasts) you want to use ALL: of the throttle but vary it as much as possible, but not try and hit top speed everywhere for a good few hundread miles, with iron kits you literally FEEL when they free up, its like riding down the road and the bike all of a sudden just feekls more powerfull/easier to rev/happier... from this point you can just pin the fuck out of it, its iron, if it siezes you can just cop a new piston.


    running in is a personal thing, air on caution if unsure, but tbh ive done this for 2 decades, i treat bikes like shit when i know i can, and i personally ride 8 miles up and over a massive hill from sea level daily, i dont have the option to gently run bikes in, this is why they have a tendancy to hot sieze/i run a little more ring end gap now to accomidate, i get through rings fast, but i use the cheapest quality piston kits i can find so an entire piston kit is less than malossi ring set... so i dont mind if i only get a few thousand out of a piston. im up to 2500 on the one im running at the min, had a hot sieze first ride, and one last night, so ima pull the oil pump, run it premix and see if it go's again, if so, oil pump back in and new piston... had a look the other day and it was clean as a whistle, daily at 60/70 for 8 miles full throttle almost the whole way, with a massive hill.... its an enigne, they can break so easily, but once there right they really can be strong as fuck/deal with alot of abuse. 6 odd siezes and the new crank i put in is straight as an arrow still ;)

    there will always be a difference with a bike you play on, and a bike you have to use!
     

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