Piaggio Zip 4T cylinder upgrade advice

Discussion in 'The Workshop' started by nikitzo, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

    Messages:
    34
    Hi,
    I was wondering is it possible to replace my Piaggio Zip 50cc (4 stroke) cylinder and piston with cylinder and piston for 100cc engine?
    What else I will need to have 100cc engine?
    1. New carb or only new needle?
    2. New cylinder head? (I think that 50cc and 100cc 4 stroke heads are the same)
    3. New CDI?
    4. New exhaust?

    Every information will be useful because in my country doesn't exist any info about 4T scooters.
    Thank you
     
    Mark Emerson Trentham likes this.
  2. Mark Emerson Trentham

    Mark Emerson Trentham Well Known Member. Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,553
    Rides:
    NSC110/ ET2.
    Was looking at similar scenario myself,cleanest decent upgrade i could find for my Zip 50 4t (06) without too much messing around,was a 78cc upgrade kit for about c£100 U.K.,from Top Performance Motoparts.
    Mk..
     
    nikitzo likes this.
  3. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

    Messages:
    34
    What you mean with "too much messing around"?
     
  4. Mark Emerson Trentham

    Mark Emerson Trentham Well Known Member. Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,553
    Rides:
    NSC110/ ET2.
    Direct replacement.
     
  5. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

    Messages:
    34
    I think that there is no matter what kind of cylinder kit will be replaced. The work is the same. I was wondering what additional item I will need to replace.
     
  6. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

    Messages:
    34
  7. Stevep

    Stevep Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,895
    That will be the one that MK was on about
     
  8. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

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    34
    I'm Sorry but what is "MK"?
     
  9. Stevep

    Stevep Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,895
    MK is the staff member that has already told you about the 78cc kit in the post above
     
    Mark Emerson Trentham likes this.
  10. scubabiker

    scubabiker NITROJUNKIE

    Messages:
    7,321
    normally big bore kits are bolt on, no need to modify anything, but if you add just a big bore kit and do nothing else, your bike will still perform the same, to maximise the gain from the engine changes, i suggest you have a cylinder head to match the kit, one with ported and flowed chambers and manifolds, and run a better cam profile.
    not sure how good your english is, just ask if you do not understand anything.
    obviously you would need to take the restrictor out the variator too!
     
  11. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

    Messages:
    34
    Thank you for the answer scubabiker.
    Basicaly I'm looking for low-cost upgrade for my Zip 4 stroke. Just need a little more power and speed. As I read and watch similar upgrades I beleive that I need:
    - big bore kit - 80 cc max;
    - new cam shaft - malossi, naraku or similar;
    - new variator and belt - malossi multivar or similar;
    - cabrurateur needle.
    Everywhere they said that I can use my old cylinder head and exhaust.
    Here they restrict the scooter after 1000 km (remove variator washer)
     
  12. scubabiker

    scubabiker NITROJUNKIE

    Messages:
    7,321
    that list sounds spot on. i am unsure what kind of cam shafts are available for your bike, but differnt cam profiles will make power at different RPM. you will want to get one that atches the setup of your transmission.
     
  13. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

    Messages:
    34
    Hi, first steps were made:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Next thing is to buy variator and kevlar belt.
    I plan to use my stock carburettor - Keihin CVK 18 with 75 main jet (according Haynes). What size mine jet I have to purchase?
     
  14. Mark Emerson Trentham

    Mark Emerson Trentham Well Known Member. Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,553
    Rides:
    NSC110/ ET2.
    Don't get a single,buy in packs to experiment.(exhaust?)
    Mk.(mark.;).
     
  15. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

    Messages:
    34
    Yes what to look for? Bigger than 75 jet? Exhaust stock or may be Tecnigas GP4 depends of the money.
    Also do I need any additional caskets or some?
     
  16. scubabiker

    scubabiker NITROJUNKIE

    Messages:
    7,321
    i would go big, around 90 maybe more? does the CDI restrict the engine RPM? and if so at what is the limit? and what RPM is the camshaft aimed to make most power? 4t tuning is a little more complicated than 2t in my opinion.
    I have a PDF of the graeme book 4 stroke tuning in theory and practice if you want a copy?
     
  17. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

    Messages:
    34
    Yes please send it to nikitzo@gmx.net
    I really don't know anything about CDI and the camshaft. I collect any information for 50 cc 4 stroke big bore upgrades from may be half an year :) . As I understood there is no need to change any electronics, cylinder head or even the exhaust. Just want to mention that I'm not looking for top of the top upgrade. I just need little more acceleration and top speed.
    This is very nice video

    Vespa LX50 engine and mine are the same
     
  18. m1ck_t

    m1ck_t Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,627
    Rides:
    alot of shit
    image.png CDI is the biggest restriction on these , they need cutting with a hack saw , you will feel the bit of copper snap , re seal it with some silicon . Job done .
     
  19. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

    Messages:
    34
    Thank you to all of you. Have a question. Please recommed me one of these variators:
    1. Malossi Multivar 2000
    2. Polini Hi-Speed
    3. Polini Speed Control
    4. Athena Speedmatic

    What is the difference between Polini Hi-Speed and Speed Control?
     
  20. nikitzo

    nikitzo Member

    Messages:
    34
    Some news from me. OK I bought malossi multivar 2000 (part #5111597) and malossi belt (#6111246)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I mount it. Inside was complete mess but I manage to clean it.
    Before
    [​IMG]
    and after
    [​IMG]
    and guess what a surprise. The scooter became very slow (max speed 40-45 km/h) and acceleration is shitty. May be the problem is that the variator came with 6,1 gr rollers. What do you think? What rollers to install? I saw that Todi-Corsa put 4,7 gr. rollers.
     

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