Most Revving Kit?

Nothing jumps out at me from the picture, but moving the con rod to check for play would be a must.

 

Hmm lets hope then. Thanks. I'll keep you informed about how things go

 

most things you can't see from a picture...
not even when holding it...
only thing to know for sure its in a good condition is to make sure its 100% straight, so it has to be measured, otherwise its gambling...
If they placed this crank of removed this crank with a a lot of violent the crank is not straight, and the bigend had to take a load of shit and abuse... something you can't see with your eyes....

In my opinion, go for a motoforce evolution crank
Its new, its quality as far as i know from the people here
And then place it well and don't fuck it upp with placing.

Bearings, always changing! Especially as your bearings are used for several miles/km's
Like i sayd before, its not always good for bearings to get them of this old crank with a lot of pressure from a bearingpuller.
And place them on the new crank, and then place them into the engine cases....

Just place new ones
About placing the new bearigns on a crank do it like this


Now you can use a tube with the diameter from the inner ring from the bearing, and place it
doing it on this way you don't place pressure on the bearingballs and cage wich in 90% fuckes up the bearings...

And, becouse that you have the metal place what caches the shocks from the crank, you don't fuckup your bigend bearing, becouse if you will hit the bearing on without this way, the 2 rods wil come togetther becouse they can't support theirself becouse there is nothing
the metal plate supports and makes the bigend bearing free of any shocks in a bad way

 

How do you remove bearings that are stuck to the crank, Ramon? Do you use a press or a puller? I'm interested to see what you use.

 

ehmm, don't have pictures of it so fast,
Only bought the underparts for a puller.

the topplace i made myself, can make some pics tomorrow.
But its this principe:
http://www.bikescooterparts.com/nl/trekkers/12574-krukaslager-trekker-set-buzzetti.html

You screw the shells under the bearings, is made a little sharp. with tightning the nuts the shell gets closer and closed, then when you have a hold you pull it off.




For placing the bearings and crank i use this methode what works great!

i can place the bearings on the method like i discribed above if you understand it ( sometimes hard to find the right words for me )

Or i have a simple gascooking kit for on the camping/vacation, i have a old metal can, wich i fill with 2stroke oil.
just above the bearing.
Place the bearing and "boil" the bearing in the hot 2stroke oil ( in this case the bearings directly got some oil )

Then place them over the crank, and they fall on their place, you don't need to use any pressure to get them on their place.

Than let it cool for 10 min so you can turn the crank with the other side up and your bearing is cooled of enough so it won't slide off anymore ^^
When both bearings are on in both cases.
I place the crank with bearings in a zip-lock bag.

and do it in the fridge, most times i place the bearings a day before building up my engines, so the crank with bearings is icecold.

The engine cases i heat up with a little gas burner, orr how i do it most times ( depenting what engine and what flued gasket i use becouse of the heat engine cases some of those flued gasket starts "burning"/bubbling and won't work anymore... )
and heat up the engine cases verry well.
Then place the sealing/gasket, and then place the crank in, Heating the other side of the engine case, and place it, when the cases are warm enough you don't need to press hard, it will almost fall direclty on its place.

Tight up the bolts, and remember to crossline them when tightning up

Then i use a teflon hammer ( so i won't fuckup the nut coil )
And make sure the crank is in the middle and measure it with those:http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voelermaat

Also when you just tighned the engine cases, the crank sometimes goes heavy or is stuck, hit it with a teflon hammer, so it frights and then it will run smooth.

Normally when the engine cases are cooled down, it runs smooth, if not, give a normal hit on the crank with the teflon hammer again, so it frights a little, and then it will run ok, when the enginecases are cooled down, the crank won't move that easy anymore to it side ( or you hit verry verry hard )

When everything is done right, this will be the result without the seals: ( movie is from a buddy of me )


Seals in, and place the other parts

 

with that last bit of what you just said Ramon, it makes me think you can help with my nrg. The crank and seals were fitted by a bike shop who have been working on bikes for years. But the crank is very stiff and doesnt spin like in that video, i know that video has no seals but it still should be quite free right? any reason why my crank is so 'stuck'? i can barely use the kick start and it's the only thing stopping me from getting it running

 

by the seals, those are new, and yess with seals it still can be verry stiff.
But if its that hard you can't start it when everything mounted,
My first engine rebuild i had the same, i didn't even centered the crank ( it does mostly itself )
But with seals it even made it verry verry stiff, took me a while to get it running.

How long did you tried? becouse if it runs make a short testdrive, after that starting should be easier.

But i don't know how they fit the cranks.
The way i normally do it, is based on metals what will extend ans schrimp on differend temperatures.

And this works well, you don't put any ballast on the bearings if you do it right.

But i gues ist the seals, and you can't do much about it, only try to get the engine running, or rebuild xD

You can try, to get the reedvalve out, and check if the crank is in the middle.
or get the ignition and transmission out. ( vario )
And smash with a teflon or wooden hammer on the crank to move it a little to the "left" or "right"
Maybe only one hit can be enough, sometimes the bearings after placing the crank are on tight to say it easy for me

get it of the tightning, maybe it can be enough, but check first in how far the crank is in the middle of the engine.

 

Well the thing is that the local shops dont have Motoforce and the only way to get it from is scooter-attack or pedparts, which will cost me another 40 euros for shipping. The local shops here (Cyprus) have very high prices on pretty much all of the parts. For example a Malossi RHQ Crank is 250 euros. That's why the used one i found for 70 is a bargain. But yes its a gamble

 

yeahh, its a gamble anyway.
If everyone mounted their cranks like it should there won't be any problem.

Now when i look at myself after those years, well, in the biginning, i also made stupid mistakes.
And yes i placed the crank with a pretty hard hand and hammer.
bearings already over the crank, and engine case not heat enough ( was to scared to heat it up to much becouse its cast aluminium.
But now my experience is that it can take a lot.

But becouse of the engine cases now hot/warm enough, the bearings didn't slide in.
Sooo u used a big teflon hammer and started smashing.

Not smart, Lucky for me, the engine never had any problem, looks like the crank didn't got fuckedup this time.
Later build up the engine with a manston replica hpi ignition etcetc on my peugeot, and as far as i know, this engine is still running after 4 years!
the owners wich i knew untill the last one, never rebuilded the enginecases, only placed a new cilinder later.

Later i had a hebo crank, probably had already fallen or something else somewhere at the wholesale.
after placing the crank already had its problems, later with masuring we already saw it had a little swing, you even could see with your eyes, thats fuckedup, still decided to drive with it, i didn't came to 700km, or the bearing cases where out, just on a verry nice meeting day, kept driving untill home and hope it would not break down ( 33km )
Well, when i got home and shut the engine down it was end of story, didn't started.

when i took the engine out and disabled it, the ballbearings from the bearing already where lose in the engine.
Cases where gone, could find them, so i was pretty lucky they didn't destroyed the cilinder.
most times it ends differend.

is shipping that expensive?
Are there in the UK not other cheaper cranks on the web?
Start searching, maybe you find one wich isn't populair in the UK but it here, and then in the UK for a low price.

Cranks i have placed or used are:
Powerone ( one of the best, i already recommend them at people here in holland, best price and quality )
Hebo sport.
stage6 HPC
Stage6 R/T 85mm conrod and 44mm stroke.
Twins crank ( from a shop here )
Artek K2
Top Racing ( not a nice one, cheap, and the finnishing touch from this part is verry verry bad, i had problems with the vario getting on, cou'd schim the belt out becouse not much of space, soo the belt is already to high in the variator wich couse problems )
Doppler Endurance
Kiesler

 

I'll get the Malossi and hope to be lucky. Maybe you could come down and tune my engine hehe

 

hehe, i think not wayyy to far, i'm from holland mate

 

Just to give you an idea Leo, I have timed the heating of the tranny side case on a Minarelli Horizontal.
With a Bosch paint stripper on full blast it takes exactly 10 minutes before the bearing will go in. If you put the Ignition side in the cold oven (heats up gradually), turn it on to 100 °C, it's ready to go on by the time the trannny side is hot.

I have heard stories about bearing distortion due to excessive heating. I warm them in a 50 °C oven (operating temp of the engine) and then whap them on a crank that's been in the freezer overnight - exactly as Ramon describes. Crank in a stirrup and a pipe on the central hub of the bearing. I use a brass washer between the two as brass is soft. They go on pretty easy.

I also measure the central position distance from the tranny side before mounting (using old seals to hold the crank) and then use a shim the same thickness in the engine. That way the crank mass hits the shim - you put the other side on - tap the case & remove the shim. Crank is centered. Tighten the bolts & away you go.

Everyone has their little tricks ! I enjoy hearing how other people's !

 

Hmm very interesting. Frankly i haven't experienced with such things as it's only my first year of having a scooter :/ I have only gotten to the point of opening the transmission cover and changing stuff like variator and rollers, belts etc

 

This video:
http://www.scootershack.co.uk/threads/this-is-how-its-done-engine-preparation.32172/
skips the crucial crank prep stage but it does show you this guy's method for centering the crank. They have a dimple in the end - so he gets a tap (while it's all hot) and centers the crank by eye with a tap in the dimple. Since he does about 30 per week - and since everything is still hot - it works just fine.

This is where I got onto the idea of using the oven for the ignition side at the same time as heating the tranny side with the paint stripper. I use a paint stripper as my engines are resined and the paint stripper won't fuck the resin as it heats more gradually without resorting to high localised temperatures (flame).

It also gave me a different method for opening up the passages for the admission. Getting rid of the blockers (flush with the horizontal sides of the admission throat) before actually carving into the tight passage to make a flowed admission speeded up the process and made it easier for me to get consistent (and symmetrical) passages. For the last word - go to the the RSE link. Drug69 does mean crank cases.

Incidentally - look at the holes left in the case after the admission is flowed. These are present - to a lesser or greater degree - due to the casting - and they tend to connect up with the holes for the guide rods of the cylinder on Minarelli Horizontal engines (Nitro, Neos/ Ovetto, Mach G, Aprillia SR etc). I use JB Weld and suck the hole of the guide rod. This pulls the liquid JB weld into the holes and seals them shut once and for all when it sets. This is a source of much angst with motors. If the crank case is not air tight - you lose power - or worse.

Some might say that it's not good for the bearing seals at the pivot point of the suspension. And I say 'whatever'. It moves maybe five degrees on a speed bump.

Whatever the case - it works - and it takes the angst out of a fairly rare job (for me - maybe twice in a year).

 

@ Turbovetto

Have you ever considered using Lumiweld instead of resin?

I think it's called Alumiweld in the US.

http://www.frost.co.uk/lumiweld-kits.html

http://www.alumiweld.com/

I have repaired loads of bike castings over the years with this stuff - it's great for stripped threads and broken off lugs on casings. It should work well where you need to build up metal inside the casings as well as it flows like solder when it's hot.

I've used it since the '70s. Great stuff and should be kept in every biker's toolbox.

 

Thanks for the link Merlin. I've heard of it. I just have to try it !
This is what I'm talking about when I say 'other peoples tricks'. And this is why I'm on this forum !

Happy new year folks -

 

The best trick is this; if you've stripped a thread on an engine case, heat the part with the thread up and partly fill the hole with some molten Lumiweld, push the correct bolt into the molten metal while keeping it all hot, then leave it to go cold. Then you can unscrew the bolt from the new thread you just made and tidy the job up - no helicoil insert needed!

I'll have to remember some more 'old school' new tricks for you!

Happy new year to all!

 

Finally my parts arrived! I'm very happy but i also have some complaints about the shipping. Firstly, it was very late! I ordered the parts on 24/12 and they came today 14/1 ! Also the cardboard box in which they came was open and my precious Yasuni exhaust has some marks on it