Honda Dylan 04 - Power Issues

Discussion in 'Maxiscooter Tuning' started by MoonDog, May 4, 2012.

  1. MoonDog

    MoonDog Member

    Messages:
    79
    Rides:
    Honda Dylan 04
    Ok a little back reading. I bought my bike last year and it isnt the fastest bike out there. This i accept. But a late (in the last 6 months) ive noticed a more sever degradation of power and acceleration. The bike has done 30,000 miles, and ive been doing basic maintenance on it myself (mainly because the local bike shop wont touch it, as its a faff to get all the fairing off). I am not the lightest guy around, and that no doubt is some of the problem, but hills i could go up last year at 25-30mph, i now go up at 18-20mph, and my weight hasnt changed. I might also add im a noob at this, and most things ive done ive learned to do the hard way, or by watching generic videos on youtube.

    So far ive overhauled the front brakes, changed the oils (engine and gear), changed the air filter, checked tyre pressures, swapped the roller weights (same spec but werent the same width???), and put a new belt on. The variator and belt fixes caused a high pitched whine which wasnt there before, and i have no idea whats causing it, but suspect the roller weights not being wide enough may have something to do with it.

    Since i dont know its past history, im beginning to wonder if the problem is engine related as opposed to transmission, although i do wonder if i should maybe look at the clutch, not that i have any idea how to identify whether its worn.

    My friend has mentioned a new camshaft, but he says its a pretty in depth process to do that. Also someone has mentioned to me jetting and floats, but he says that is a bit of a dark art.

    I have looked into roller weights, and am contemplating putting some lighter ones in to see if this will improve hill climbing and general acceleration.

    Current top speed on the flat or down a hill is 60mph. If i change the weights, i understand that i will lose speed at the top end, but would i gain more power in the low and mid range? Ideally i could live with a top speed of 50, if it went up hills a little quicker, and accelerated from 0-20 a little faster.

    Any help or ideas you have would be appreciated.

    Thanks (in advance).
     
  2. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Hi mate, I own a 02 dylan, 125cc. The standard rollers are 20x15 11.5g. I replaced my exhaust with a venom exhaust and took 3 of the rollers out and replaced them with 3 20x15 7.5g rollers. I still have a top speed of 60-65 but acceleration has improved alot. I would reccomend you check the size and weight of your rollers first before looking into an engine problem as its alot easier to start with. Did the hill problem start after replacing the belt? because I had the same problem when I replaced the belt until it wore in, and the bike runs perfect. Mine also has just over 30000 miles. Hope this has helped in some way.
     
  3. MoonDog

    MoonDog Member

    Messages:
    79
    Rides:
    Honda Dylan 04
    I ordered some 10g rollers earlier, with the intention of maybe swapping the 12's for them, and see what effect that has.

    I took the bike for a longer journey today and it now climbs hills at 30mph, so a step in the right direction maybe. Hopefully with the 10g weights i can head towards 40mph.

    I've come to realise that i have the wrong size rollers, and that is most likely whats causing the whirring noise. The site i got them from said the size for a honda dylan was 20x12, if they are 20x15, that explains why they werent wide enough. The whir is probably vibrations form ill fitting rollers.

    The new belt seems fine.

    I also considered an aftermarket exhaust, but doesnt that bring up jetting problems. I read a couple of threads about replacing the exhaust and also air filter, and consensus seems to be you then have to change parts of the carb to compensate for the different parts. I dont pretend to fully understand it, but i suspect it has to do with compression and air/fuel mixtures.

    Thanks for your reply Andy, it has helped. I think trying out different roller weights might be the way to go. I shall order some 7g rollers tomorrow.
     
  4. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Alright mate, if you have the right size 10g rollers then I wouldn't order the 7's as the 10's will be fine. When I put my exhaust on I didnt up jet I just put the lighter rollers in and it is great. So if your planning an exhaust I wouldnt worry about the jet as we have same bike.
    As for the air filter I would keep air box on as standard, if you put an open filter on it'll just drink fuel, you'll then have to up jet and for no gains at all. Anyway keep me updated on how you get on because I'm interested. Your the only one it seems that has the same bike as me. It is a 125 isn't it?
    Take care moondog
     
  5. MoonDog

    MoonDog Member

    Messages:
    79
    Rides:
    Honda Dylan 04
    The exhaust is on the list, but also by the point i come to that part of the list i may have my DAS done. In which case the next thing on my list is a FJS600 Silver Wing. But i'll probably keep the Dylan for work runs.

    I will try the 10g weights, but they arent the correct size (i had ordered them previous to when you made your first reply and the shop i bought from had already posted them. I'll keep them for testing, and purchase some 11.5 and 7.5 20x15 rollers to make up the official sizes. The spares will come in handy for a new project (my dad wants to rekindle his days of moped'ing across Ireland so i will eventually be looking for a 50cc scoot, or maybe a c50 cub.

    Im going to take it on a bit of a trip in July, which is a lot to do with why im committing fixes to it now. Looking to rack up about 1300 miles in 9 days (i did 1000 in 3 days last year, 1 week after it passed its MOT, and 1 month after my CBT), see some parts of the UK ive not been to before, ride some new roads, etc. Then come October, im looking to take it to Spain for 13 days. I have no plans yet for the Spain trip besides getting to Madrid from Santander or Bilbao (probably looking at 1000 miles).
     
  6. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Yes I originally wanted 10g rollers but like you I couldn't get the right size so I got a pack of 6 7.5g and replaced just 3 to make a similar weight. I would love to go to Spain on my bike and do what youre planning that would be a memory for life! Them Honda cubs are amazing aswell, my mate had one sitting for years and one day I asked him if it worked. He said try it and I kicked it over and it started first kick! Absolutely brilliant! That's with very old petrol and very old oil, I couldn't believe it. I think he still has it now!
     
  7. MoonDog

    MoonDog Member

    Messages:
    79
    Rides:
    Honda Dylan 04
    Well the 10g rollers arrived this lunchtime. Will fit them on Monday and gauge acceleration etc, and order the correct size rollers for fitting later in the week.

    The Spain trip is a prelude to bigger things. Its what im considering to be the first part, of my ride the world plan. Second part requires me to have my DAS done, have a bigger bike, adventure/trail style, £10k and probably about 2 months of spare time. I plan to head down into Africa, and see some people i know in Ethiopia, Zambia and South Africa. Then a further trip some time after that to Nepal or Mongolia (or both). But a lot of this is planned for in 4 or 5 years. I want to travel on a bike and see something of the world, meet new people, etc. ;)

    You shouldnt write off the possibility of taking your scoot abroad. Its possible to do it on an 'L' plate (assumption that you are a L still, if not apologies), some travel insurance firms will cover you, but AA or RAC cover isnt possible so far as ive researched without a full license (but then European countries tend to be the most active users of scooters, far more than the UK so finding parts shouldnt be hard, and whats most likely going to break? Simple things we fix regularly like burst tyres, etc).

    Im also tempted to take the scoot into France on a short break, as there are ports nearby, and you can get deals for less than £50 from time to time. If you are worried about language barriers, maybe consider Belgium or Holland as both countries speak English flawlessly (compared to a lot of brits). :p But dont think a trip abroad is a big thing, or overly costly. On a 125 its going to be reasonably cheap, and getting your head around the planning isnt rocket science by any means. If you ever consider it, look up a forum community called horizonsunlimited. The members there tend to be the adventurers of the biking and 4x4 community, and you can get a lot of help with planning trips abroad. Plus they arent anti scooter, in fact their are many people there that have done big trips, like from Canada to Argentina on small engine bikes and scoots.
     
  8. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Very good, I would love to go and do all of the above but I'm unsure I would be able to take that much time off work/ afford to take that much time off! I really would love to do that but I'd be leaving my mrs and 1 year old son behind also. So maybe in 4 or 5 years I'd be able to go do that. Thanks for all the tips I'm going to have a look at that site also.

    Let me know how your scoot gets on aswell. I'm off to work on mine now! Love it
     
  9. MoonDog

    MoonDog Member

    Messages:
    79
    Rides:
    Honda Dylan 04
    10g Rollers, complete difference. Very steady acceleration on flat through to 40 ish, goes up hills at 30 still (maybe i wont be able to fix this), still has bugger all acceleration from stand still (clutch overhaul?), especially when on a hill (i try to keep it rolling slowly as opposed to stopping).

    I also had to fiddle with the idle screw again as the auto choke seems to have permanently deactivated after my variator repairs. Its set a little high at present, but i'll correct that tomorrow.

    I would say the acceleration is more linear in comparison to what it originally was, it doesnt hit the wall until 40ish now, but i wasnt able to test it to much tonight as a storm has blown in and made things somewhat annoying (riding conditions wise). Took it on a short test journey i sometimes use that has a rather steep hill at one point. Normally that hill is 15-18mph territory, today i achieved about 22 with gradual acceleration to 25 while ascending, but this hill is steep. Will try some less steep hills tomorrow.

    The official sized rollers should arrive Wednesday, which will see the weight dropping to roughly 56g.

    I wonder how much your sports exhaust helps with power. This original one may be stifling power a little, but i cant justify spending £250 on a leo vince exhaust currently (i saw a cheaper exhaust on pedstop, a tecnigas exhaust for £150, but no idea if that would suffice). Even then spending £150 on this bike at present is to much. Once it passes this years MOT then i'll think about tweaking things.
     
  10. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Ok well firstly thanks for getting back to me. And I'm glad its improved slightly. The exhaust I got, A venom one from wemoto.com who i highly reccomend. I found that it moved the power higher into the rev range which is why I installed the lighter rollers. The standard bike i found it was as you decribe yours now. Got to 40 ok then kind of crept to 60. But now it flies to 40, and after 45 it flies to 60-65. The only things ive done to the bike are changed the belt, exhaust and the rollers and its perfect for me. Near where I live i have a pretty steep hill and i get 40 up it with my mate on the back of it aswell. So the hills where you are must be real steep! 56 is only a g lighter than mine so will be fine. So the next step for you i would recommend the venom exhaust (obviously when funds allow.) Everybody on here suggests stay well away from tecnigas exhausts so i would go along with their experience. Although they were talking about 2 strokes not 4 strokes. But still I wouldnt risk wasting your money. Any way I hope everything continues to improve, keep me updated!
     
  11. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Also about your clutch, I wouldnt really know what to advise you on that as I havent needed to touch mine. So maybe it is due a look into, but again Im not the best person to talk to about that.
     
  12. MoonDog

    MoonDog Member

    Messages:
    79
    Rides:
    Honda Dylan 04
    The venom exhaust is only an additional £30 more than the tecnigas, i shall now prioritise that upgrade. Maybe in 2 months. I also see a lot of people fabricating their own exhausts. I have a welder and the muffler is the only bit i dont have. It might be a nice project to learn to use the welder a little more (up to now just welded random bits of metal).

    As for the clutch, i will ask a general question in one of the other areas of the board, and see if i can get advice. If it will help im happy to put a new one in and would prefer to do so prior to any big trips. Better to have a load of trustworthy kit before racking up 1000 miles in a foreign country. ;)
     
  13. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Definatly agree with you there, as for welding and fabricating I would be totally useless at that! I will be watching closely what advice you get, and may upgrade/ replace mine aswell just for experience of doing one. Once again, keep me updated :)
     
  14. MoonDog

    MoonDog Member

    Messages:
    79
    Rides:
    Honda Dylan 04
    Did the rollers earlier and its very nice now, acceleration between 0-10mph is still sluggish, but from 10-40 is very fast. Didnt get to test on hills or get to go past 40 so i wont know until tomorrow if anything has happened to the top end.

    As it stands i may buy the exhaust a bit sooner, as my car passed its MOT (unexpectedly). Also probably will swap the clutch out, as its the last bit in the transmission that is original (and i fancy getting my hands dirty again).
     
  15. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Glad things are better, when you get the exhaust you will notice a nice difference. I'm also thinking of changing my clutch soon for experience. I'm also thinking of a new set of tyres aswell, need something a bit more sticky than bridgestones. Any advice on that? What do you have and how do you find them?
     
  16. MoonDog

    MoonDog Member

    Messages:
    79
    Rides:
    Honda Dylan 04
    Im using Michelin City Grip's at the minute and they are more than adequate, and due to something called Sipes (lots of small gaps that provide better traction) they dont slide as much in the rain. I had Avon Vyper Stryke's before that and they were also good, but for the money the Michelins beat them in the rain just a little. The Michelins cost £47 each, and were money well spent.

    http://www.michelin.co.uk/motorcycl...TWXXX487598&fromTyreSegment=6&carId=TWXXX1512
     
  17. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Thanks alot, really helped me there. I will have a set of these soon. Let me know any progress you have!
     
  18. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Have you had any progress with your scoot recently?
     
  19. MoonDog

    MoonDog Member

    Messages:
    79
    Rides:
    Honda Dylan 04
    Not so far, been working and been ill. :)

    Tomorrow i hope to order a few things and next week all being well i'll have the exhaust, and maybe the springs for the clutch.
     
  20. AndyWalsh

    AndyWalsh Member

    Messages:
    157
    Rides:
    SES125-2 Dylan
    Oh dear, my sons just come out of hospital today, nasty virus' going round at the moment. Get well and let me know how you get on!
     

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