LED Headlight issue, highbeam/secondary bulb doesn't turn on

I wanted to replace all the bulbs in my DNA 50 (new model) with LEDs for extra brightness, I put the first one in to check, worked fine, swapped the second bulb for a led one, turned bike on, turned highbeam on, bulb doesn't turn on. I swapped them over to check the bulb itself worked, and it worked fine in the other slot.

Any idea why only one led bulb seems to work at a time?

I thought that my bikes regulator had a built-in flasher relay for LEDs as standard, but I think the indicators are flashing too fast, slightly. So I am wondering if it doesn't have this regulator build in and if that somehow has an effect on the second headlight bulb being LED also (haven't heard of this being the case though.)



Fow now I've just got the LED bulb in the primary/always-on socket and left an old bulb in the other which is only on when you either hold down the high beam switch which keeps both on at the same time, or toggle the switch which swaps the active light from left to right.

 

The bulbs share a common earth but the live wires are separate. Are you sure that the second bulb was oriented correctly in the headlamp with the wires corrected the right way around?

LEDs are diodes, in that they only work with the power flowing one way and you may have had had the power polarity wrong, hence why it didn't work.

 

Yeah they only fit one way, and I didn't remove any wires from the fittings. If the wires were the wrong way around, would that stop a standard bulb working or not? they might already be the wrong way around?

 

Normal bulbs aren't polarity sensitive, so they would work either way around. LED bulbs are polarity sensitive as far as I know.

If your earth wire is green, then the green wires should be on the same terminals on the two LED bulbs, i.e. the same orientation as the one that already works. The other two coloured wires (yellow/blue and white on my Peugeot) are both switched live, and will take 12v to either one bulb or the other, depending on the switch position (dip or main beam). They should both be in the same position on both bulbs.

Have I explained that clearly enough?

 

I know they don't both come on at once, I'm saying that the second one does not come on at all.

 

Have you got the right bulb? Both the 55w Halogen & the LED in the photo are both 'twin filament'. If one side is high beam & the other low I would expect it to be single filament (one single bulb each side).

You might find this wiring diagram useful, it's an early model but take a look anyway. Go to page 166.

http://www.leertouwer.com/DB_FILES/productie/general/1_5_50/Handboek MH aerox.pdf

You will see the headlights are on a different circuit from the indicators. You will also notice it does not go through the rectifier which means the headlights are AC (The rectifier changes the AC to DC). Do your headlight work with the engine off? Some modern scooters do, they are DC - feed from the battery.

I looked into doing the same on my 2002 Aerox 100 in the beginning of the year, including the tail light. My concern was first that if I used an LED I would only be using half of the power (maybe only 20%) because being a diode it needs the power to flow though it in one direction - DC.



What about the rest of the power you are not using? Not to mention you are replacing a 55w bulb with maybe a 5w or 10w. (Mine was a single 35w as standard.) When your lights are off the white resistor under the horn burns off the unused power as I believe if it didn't, it would damage the magneto (alternator). So not using half of the power I think you risk damaging the magneto.

The next thing to think about is if you look at the AC sine wave you are only at around +12v for about 20% of the time. On tick-over the voltage will be even less, maybe 4v at 20% of the time? It has no voltage regulator on the AC side, the volts are governed by RPM. An example, at 6,000 RPM it might be at 12v = 12v / 6,000RPM x 2,000 RPM tick-over. You could find yourself at a junction at night with no headlight...

My solution was to make 2 simple bridge rectifiers out of 4 diodes each to turn the AC into DC & put it behind the headlight.



Then on the LED side put a large capacitor across the + & - to act like a small battery to reduce the flicker. (All pence from Maplin.)

But the final reason for not doing it, apart from is it really worth it & if it's not broke don't 'fix' it, was the light output (Lumens) from the LED bulbs that I was looking at were not as bright as the 35v original!!! And the original bulb was rubbish to start with!! 45 miles of Frosty - foggy Cornish roads at night, not nice & not really a good idea but needs must. I also tried a 45w bulb but no brighter, just dim & flickery at tick-over.


As a side point I was told the 55w Halogen bulb WILL melt the plastic reflector, has anyone had this?

 

As for flash rate, as long as the indicators flash between 60 to 120 times a minute that's fine.

http://www.ukmot.com/1-5.asp

 

Were abouts in Cornwall are you bud I'm from Cornwall.

 

Well, I have a whole new problem now. I put a fresh battery in, in part so I could see all the lights properly when they're fully powered, and the indicators were flashing far too fast - I bought this regulator http://www.pedparts.co.uk/product/1996/12v-piaggio-gilera-regulator-with-flasher-built-in and replaced the stock with that.

Both the front and rear LED indicators flash properly now, I can easily see they were flashing too fast before now. The brake LEDs also work fine.

However, my LED bulb for the headlight doesn't work now! I can see a small amount of light coming from it if I get my face up real close, but it simply isn't 'ON', the secondary/high-beam bulb which is still the halogen bulb works fine when I turn the highbeam switch on.

So what now? Does it think my LED headlamp bulb is an indicator and not giving it enough power or something?

I'm thinking of just getting some new standard halogen bulbs and using those unless anyone knows what's up.

As far as I know the halogen bulbs that are/were in it are the standard ones, I never replaced them, but maybe someone before me did, I don't know.

Edit: I almost forgot, but after changing the regulator, my rev counter needle barely moves when the bike is turned on but standing still, wheras with the previous regulator it hovered a bit after the 1.
I also gave it a good rev on the center stand for a while, let it run a bit to warm up, turned it off, back on, repeated the process, and the needle was barely hitting 7, when before I could have sworn it was going up to 9, is this just a display issue and nothing to worry about or is this new regulator just not compatible with the bike or something?

 

First I have to apologise, I came on the site looking for info on my Yamaha Aerox 100, stumbled upon your thread & got it into my head you also had an Aerox. SO....

Has a Google & found this,



I looked for replacement bulbs to see if they should be single or double bulbs but didn't get far.

I think it would be useful to know the full model & year as someone said... "Your head light unit should have two bulbs, as you are sit on the bike there should be a small bulb on the right (throttle side) and a dual element H4 on the left hand side. There is a two pin plug for the right hand bulb (this is your marker/side lamp). There is a three pin plug for the left hand bulb (Dip and Main beam)"

Is your headlamp unit standard?

In the Gilera DNA 50 GP wiring diagram it shows 2 single filament bulbs but doesn't show a side light bulb.
But if your scooter is wired the same it looks like it runs on DC which makes things easy.

When it comes to fault finding, start from the beginning. Put ALL the standard bulbs back in, see if it works as it should. Next take your old battery you've just taken off your bike & test your LED bulbs. Negative (-) on the outside, Positive (+) on the small contact(s) on the bottom of the bulb. Then when you know everything is working as it should, fix 1 of the new LED headlight bulbs. If it works take it out, put the original back in, make sure it works. Then try the other bulb.

If it all works with the standard bulb but not the LED headlamp you have a few options.

1 Buy a Haynes Manuals, in the back it will have accurate wiring diagrams, fault finding.
http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/...1&parent_category_rn=42002&top_category=10004

2 Take some decent photos of the back of the headlight bulb sockets, headlight wiring loom so we can have a proper look.

3 Just put the standard bulbs back in.

 

I was in Plymouth, I got the Aerox because it was almost as cheap as walking! I was going down to Par.

 

I tried the other socket with the same LED bulb - no dice. Swapped the LED bulb for another, it seemed to work fine in both slots, but after <3 minutes of being turned on, it died. Do I need a resistor or something before the bulb? I thought the regulator would handle that since it supports LED indicators. I think I'm just going to buy some nice new halogens for the headlamp unit (yes it is standard as far as I know).

I don't know why, either, but the "highbeam" light on the speedo is always 'ON', doesn't change when I flick the highbeam switch or anything, is it supposed to be on always? I have a Haynes manual for the bike and even another manual I found online but they don't get very specific or mention such things.

Thanks again.

 

To be honest you mentioned the reason for getting the LED headlight bulb was for it to be brighter. I doubt very much that it would be brighter so I think you would be better as you said putting the a standard halogen bulb back in there.

As for the high beam warning light, obviously it's only meant to come on with the high beam. If putting all the original parts back on doesn't fix the problems then I think you would be better taking it to a decent garage to have a look at.

 

Yeah, even before I started messing with anything, that light was on, so I am thinking maybe it's supposed to be? like an "ok" indicator light? Then again I have read that DNAs supposedly had "bad electrics" or something.



Also, regarding these lights on my dash, after I filled up my petrol tank the petrol light was on for a while (isn't anymore) any reason that was happening?

And of course all this messing around with my dash, I ended up cracking the LCD screen. It still works and everything is readable, but now there's an annoying big splotche of liquid there. Neverending..

Edit: Aside from the Haynes manual, this is the other one I found: http://www.scribd.com/doc/128986576/Gilera-DNA-50-EN (where the image is from)

 

Is there a chance you have fried the voltage regulator in the instrument cluster?

 

I don't know, is there? Are you talking about the headlight indicator being always-on? Because that has been like that since I got the bike.

The only voltage regulator I know about is this thing:


Which is located under one of the rear side panels. Again, the high beam indicator LED was on when I got the bike, and I have since changed it to a brand new one with LED indicator support, and the high beam LED light remains on, so I have no idea.

 

An instrument cluster may contain all sorts of components that are sensitive to being run at the wrong voltage or polarity. I didn't realise you had a pre-existing fault with the high beam indicator before you tried the LED bulbs, it probably would have been a good idea to sort that out before swapping the headlight bulbs out bulbs out. You could have faulty/broken wiring, faulty switchgear, burnt or corroded pcb tracks, bad earths or as I said earlier a faulty voltage regulator. The only way to know for sure is to meter out the circuits or swap out parts for ones that are known to be working. Whatever you choose to do you need to be competent and methodical, the alternative is an auto electrician

 

I'm taking it to a shop to have them do a ton of jobs with it because I don't have time / lost the effort with it and just want it finished, I hope it's not a complex issue. Either way, it doesn't really matter does it? The high-beam switch is both a button and a toggle switch. Pressing it down (and holding it) causes both headlights to turn on, flicking the switch up (the toggle) simply swaps what light is in use from the left to the right, and I can't imagine that being much of an issue on the road anyway? (That is if I acidentally had it on anyway).

Anyway, thanks for the help. If anyone has anyone good ideas of what the problem could be or if it is even a problem (any DNA owners???) or not i'm all ears.

Thanks again.